One of the recommended books in our Shefari widget is "The Shack" by William P Young. I haven't read this book myself but Pete read it recently and really enjoyed it. It seems to be this years, Purpose Driven Life, with people going nuts over it - either because they love it, or because they hate it! With blogs and websites seemingly dedicated to discussing it!Tim Challies, a guy I know only a little about - but who comes highly recommended has written a very substantial review of the book here - its about 15 pages long, but worth a look if your interested in seeing what all the fuss is about. I originally read a more condensed review that he did a while ago and would recommend you read this first if you just want a quick read.
I've read a few of Challies reviews now and they are all extremely fair and well written, so much so that even if you disagree with what he's saying its hard not to respect it!
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14 comments:
I havnt read it all. Im not saying I dont agree with the way that the author potrays the Trinity but more to the point that i just dont Understand It!! looking forward to finishing it though, great read!
cheers for the comment! Challies gives a fairly negative review (don't know if you read it yet or not), seeing as your enjoying it would you be interested in writing a review yourself when you're finished and we'll get it posted here?
nah, thats gay! its pete u geek!!
Nickell or comfort? I expect a review from you whoever it is! If its Comfort then its about time you checked out you posted something anyway!
the trinity was written by the roman catholic church as a dogma, following the papal bull also naming papal infalibility as a dogma. its purpose was to break God into 3 less than God beings, who could be rivalled by the "rock" on which Jesus built his church. This gave the "rock" (a.k.a. Pope) infallability, as Gods voice on earth. this conviniently allows the bible to be altered in 1John 5:7-8, in which every bible has a footnote, explaining "not found in any greek manuscript before the 16th century"
the trinity first mentioned in 400 AD, was mis-quoted, refering in the original greek, to 3 three revelations of God, in word, flesh and revealation. not three persons of God or even the "faces" of God oneness christians believe..
another, obvious fault of the trinity, Jesus father, was not "God the Father" but "God the holy spirit." Matthew 1:13
saying this.... interperatation of the godhead, is not a soul deciding matter, as Driscoll, and the Catholic church (which educated Driscoll, at high school and St Augustine) believe.
If the holy, or blessed trinity helps build your relationship in understanding God, then i hope it continues to bless you.
interesting post - so what do you believe then? Or are you Pete just winding me up?!
not just pete doing a wind up.
the bible doesnt even attempt to tell us the form of God, except that no man can comprehend it.
the oneness, would be more accurate, as there is one God. However that doesnt make me a oneness believer, im just too well read and educated to believe in the trinity. ;)
the God head isnt a relevance, salvation is.
I'd have to disagree and say that although the bible doesn't give us a clear cut picture about the exact nature of God, it gives us a lot of information. Without telling us anything about him how could we worship. How can we be in awe of a God we dont know, or worship a creator we're completely ignorant of!
And further, the trinity teaches one God - Its kind of at its center!
"The godhead isnt a relevance"? Im sure you didn't mean for that to sound as bad as it is! While I agree we can have all the head knowledge in the world, and lack salvation. The fact that salvation is of preeminent importance, doesn't take away from the importance of knowing the truth that all scripture teaches. Without sound doctrine, on what is salvation based?
To label everything but salvation as irrelevant is a serious error.
no, i think you've mis understood me. maybe its my fault for typing stupidly.
the bible in no place says God is a triune being, or a oneness being. that is my point, not dismissing who or what God is, we learn plenty of that. so we're not ignorant of who or what God is, just the aspect of the trinity, and the oneness arent remotely adressed. these are debates that arouse after the theories were put forward.
illustration.
when hebrews was written it wasnt written as a ONENESS book. its become that, by people looking for the oneness, similarly John, wasnt a trinitarian book, but trinitarians look to it for evidence, to back up mans theories (on both counts)
yes the trinity teaches one God, but only as 3 seperate beings. this was the point of the Roman Catholic church. 1 supreme God, unrivalled, was divided into 3 less than God bodies (persons)
there is one God, however if we pray (as roman catholics) we can do so to jesus, the father, the spirit, mary, or past saints. this was the point of the trinity as a dogma. the catholic church said, "if you dont believe in what we teach, you go to hell." and what they taught was jesus was awesome, but the pope was awesome too.
while i agree that doctrine is of huge importance. trying to understand God, and decreeing what his make up is, is of no relevance. if it was the bible would have told us. if we could figure it out, then he(/they ;)) wouldnt be God.
books on the trinity, and the oneness, serve no purpose. they are mans theories.
Three in one, one in three, God of my salvation,
Heavenly Father, blessed Son, eternal Spirit,
I adore three as one Being, one Essence,
one God in three distinct Persons,
for bringing sinners to thy knowledge and to thy kingdom.
O Father, thou hast loved me and sent Jesus to redeem me;
O Jesus, thou hast loved me and assumed my nature,
shed thine own blood to wash away my sins,
wrought righteousness to cover my unworthiness;
O Holy Spirit, thou hast loved me and entered my heart,
implanted there eternal life,
revealed to me the glories of Jesus.
Three Persons and one God, I bless and praise thee,
for love so unmerited, so unspeakable, so wondrous,
so mighty to save the lost and raise them to glory.
From The Valley of Vision: A collection of Puritan Prayers & Devotions,
edited by Arthur Bennett, Banner of Truth Trust, 2007 reprint, p. 3.
Read the answers to sixty questions concerning the Godhead as found in the Bible.
1. Is the word trinity in the Bible? No.
2. Does the Bible say that there are three persons in the Godhead? No.
3. Does the Bible speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Yes.
4. Do these titles as used in Matthew 28:19 mean that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead? No, they refer to three offices, roles, or relationship to humanity.
5. Does the Bible use the word three in reference to God? Only one verse in the entire Bible does so-I John 5:7. It speaks of the Father, the Word (instead of Son), and the Holy Ghost, and it concludes by saying, "These three are one."
6. Does the Bible use the word one in reference to God? Yes, many times. For example, see Zechariah 14:9; Malachi 2:10; Matthew 23:9; Mark 12:29, 32; John 8:41; 10:30; Romans 3:30; I Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; I Timothy 2:5; James 2:19.
7. Can the mystery of the Godhead be understood? Yes. Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9; I Timothy 3:16.
8. Has the Christian only one Heavenly Father? Yes. Matthew 23:9.
9. Then why did Jesus say to Philip, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9)? Because Jesus is the express image of God's person. Hebrews 1:3. The Greek word for personin this verse literally means "substance."
10. Does the Bible say that there are two persons in the Godhead? No.
11. Does the Bible say that all the Godhead is revealed in one person? Yes, in Jesus Christ. II Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:19; 2:9; Hebrews 1:3.
12. Is the mystery of the Deity hidden from some people? Yes. Luke 10:21-22.
13. Who is the Father? The Father is the one God, particularly as revealed in parental relationship to humanity. Deuteronomy 32:6; Malachi 2:10.
14. Where was God the Father while Jesus was on earth? The Father was in Christ. John 14:10; II Corinthians 5:19. He was also in heaven, for God is omnipresent.
15. Did the prophet Isaiah say that Jesus would be the Father? Yes. Isaiah 9:6; 63:16.
16. When God said, "Let us make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26), was He speaking to another person in the Godhead? No. Isaiah 44:24; Malachi 2:10.
17. How many of God's qualities were in Christ? All. Colossians 2:9.
18. How may we see the God who sent Jesus into the world? By seeing Jesus. John 12:44-45; 14:9.
19. Does the Bible say that Jesus is the Almighty? Yes. Revelation 1:8
20. Whom do some designate as the first person in the trinity? God the Father.
21. Whom do some designate as the last person in the trinity? The Holy Ghost. But Jesus said that He was the first and last. Revelation 1:17-18
22. How many persons did John see sitting on the throne in heaven? One. Revelation 4:2.
23. If Jesus is the first and the last, why did God say in Isaiah 44:6 that He was the first and the last? Because Jesus is the God of the Old Testament incarnate.
24. Did Jesus tell Satan that God alone should be worshipped? Yes. Matthew 4:10
25. Does the devil believe in more than one God? No. James 2:19.
26. Does the Bible say that God, who is the Word, was made flesh? Yes John 1:1, 14.
27. For what purpose was God manifested in the flesh? To save sinners. Hebrews 2:9, 14.
28. Was Jesus God manifested in the flesh? Yes. I Timothy 3:16.
29. Could Jesus have been on earth and in heaven at the same time? Yes. John 3:13.
30. Does the Bible say that there is but one Lord? Yes. Isaiah 45:18; Ephesians 4:5.
31. Does the Bible say that Christ is the Lord? Yes. Luke 2:11.
32. Does the Bible say that the Lord is God? Yes. I kings 18:39; Zechariah 14:5; Acts 2:39; Revelation 19:1.
33. How could the church belong to Jesus (Matthew 16:18) and yet be the church of God (I Corinthians 10:32)? Because Jesus is God in the flesh.
34. Will God give His glory to another? No. Isaiah 42:8.
35. Was there a God formed before Jehovah, or will there be one formed after? No. Isaiah 43:10.
36. What is one thing that God does not know? Another God. Isaiah 44:8.
37. What is one thing that God Cannot do? Lie. Titus 1:2.
38. How many Gods should we know? Only one. Hosea 13:4.
39. How many names has the Lord? One. Zechariah 14:9.
40. Is it good to think upon the name of the Lord? Yes. Malachi 3:16.
41. Does the Bible say that God alone treads upon the waves of the sea? Yes. Job 9:8
42. Why, then, was Jesus able to walk upon the Sea of Galilee (Matthew 14:25)? Because He is God the Creator. Colossians 1:16.
43. Is God the only one who can forgive sin? Yes. Isiah 43:25; Mark 2:7.
44. Why, then, could Jesus forgive sin in Mark 2:5-11? Because He is God the Savior.
45. Is Jesus the true God? Yes. I John 5:20.
46. If God and the Holy Ghost are two separate persons, which was the Father of Christ? Matthew 1:20 says that the Holy Ghost was the Father, while Romans 15:6, II Corinthians 11:31, and Ephesians 1:3 say that God was the Father. There is no contradiction when we realize that God the Father and the Holy Ghost are one and the same Spirit. Matthew 10:20; Ephesians 4:4; I Corinthians 3:16.
47. When Paul asked the Lord who He was, what was the answer? "I am Jesus." Acts 9:5.
48. When Stephen was dying, did he call God Jesus? Yes. Acts 7:59.
49. Did Thomas ever call Jesus God? Yes. John 20:28.
50. How could Jesus be the Savior, when God the Father said in Isaiah 43:11, "Beside me there is no Savior?" Because "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." II Corinthians 5:19.
51. Does the Bible say that Jesus was God with us? Yes. Matthew 1:23.
52. Did Jesus ever say, "I and my Father are one?" Yes. John 10:30.
53. Can it be proved scripturally that Jesus and the Father are one in the same sense that husband and wife are one? No. The Godhead was never compared to the relationship of a husband and wife. Jesus identified Himself with the Father in a way that husband and wife cannot be identified with each other. John 14:9-11.
54. Does the Bible say that there is only one wise God? Yes. Jude 25.
55. Does the Bible call the Holy Ghost a second or third person in the Godhead? No. The Holy Ghost is the one Spirit of God, the one God Himself at work in our lives. John 4:24; I Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19; 12:13.
56. Can Trinitarians show that three divine persons were present when Jesus was baptized by John? Absolutely not. The one, omnipresent God used three simultaneous manifestations. Only one divine person was present--Jesus Christ the Lord.
57. Then what were the other two of whom Trinitarians speak? One was a voice from heaven; the other was the Spirit of God in the form of a dove. Matthew 3:16-17.
58. What did the voice say at Jesus' baptism? "Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Mark 1:11. As the Son of God, Jesus was the one God incarnate.
59. Does the Bible say that God shed His blood and that God laid down His life for us? Yes. Acts 20:28; I John 3:16. God was able to do this because He had taken upon Himself a human body.
60. The Bible says that God is coming back with all his saints (Zechariah 14:5) and also that Jesus is coming back with all his saints (I Thessalonians 3:13). Are two coming back? No. Only one is coming back--our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13.
wonder is that last comment a vopy and paste jobby? if nt ur fingers must be wrecked man!!
i have friggin looked every where for this!!!
was on the re:late site for like 20 minutes.
the good old oneness v trinity...
im a oneness believer, because the oneness is in the bible Colossians 2:9
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%202:9;&version=31
and history tells us that the trinity was publicised by the roman catholic church to create papal infalibility, (as they both coincidentally became dogmas within 5 years of each other via papal bulls. (get well in) so much so that in the (i think) 1400s, they changed bible verses in 1John. (your bible will have a note telling you these verses arent in any original manuscripts.)
but anyway, if the trinity helps you forge a closer relationship with God, fair play.
despite what Driscoll says, u wont lose your soul if you get the Godhead wrong.
i have friggin looked every where for this!!!
was on the re:late site for like 20 minutes.
the good old oneness v trinity...
im a oneness believer, because the oneness is in the bible Colossians 2:9
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%202:9;&version=31
and history tells us that the trinity was publicised by the roman catholic church to create papal infalibility, (as they both coincidentally became dogmas within 5 years of each other via papal bulls. (get well in) so much so that in the (i think) 1400s, they changed bible verses in 1John. (your bible will have a note telling you these verses arent in any original manuscripts.)
but anyway, if the trinity helps you forge a closer relationship with God, fair play.
despite what Driscoll says, u wont lose your soul if you get the Godhead wrong.
Joel Arbuthnot
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